Mind Body Detox Podcast

93: Cracking the Code - Ultra-Processed Foods, Addiction, and Transforming Your Diet

• Kara Lovehart • Season 3 • Episode 93

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Mind Body Detox Podcast - Cracking the Code - Ultra-Processed Foods, Addiction, and Transforming Your Diet

Join us for episode 93 of the Mind Body Detox podcast with a captivating discussion about how ultra-processed foods have infiltrated our daily lives and are impacting our health in ways we may not even realize. Hosted by Kara Lovehart, Mind-Body Psychic Medium and Executive Intuitive Coach, this episode features leading naturopathic doctor Dr. John Neustadt, who brings a wealth of insight into the often-overlooked effects of ultra-processed foods.

Episode Highlights:

  • The NOVA classification system explained: distinguishing between minimally processed and ultra-processed foods.
  • Why ultra-processed foods make up nearly 60% of the American diet and how socio-economic factors contribute to their prevalence.
  • Comparing the availability and consumption of ultra-processed foods in the US vs. Europe.
  • The addictive nature of ultra-processed foods: how they are engineered to disrupt our body’s natural satiety signals.
  • Practical tips to minimize exposure to harmful food packaging chemicals and additives.

About
Dr. John Neustadt (New-Stat), ND is the Founder and President of Nutritional Biochemistry, Inc. (NBI). Dr. Neustadt earned his naturopathic medical degree from Bastyr University where he was awarded the Founder’s Award for academic and clinical excellence. Dr. Neustadt has published more than 100 medical articles, written four health and wellness books and is now a #1 Amazon Best-Selling Author in the field of Osteoporosis. His most recent book is Fracture-Proof Your Bones: A Comprehensive Guide to Osteoporosis. Dr. Neustadt was also an editor of the textbook, Laboratory Evaluations for Integrative and Functional Medicine, which was used across the United States to train and educate physicians on using functional medicine with their patients.

Resources
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Kara Lovehart:

This is the MindBodyDetox podcast, where we discuss all things integrative health and wellness, interviewing folks from all over the world, sharing insights and wisdom for how to live a healthier life in mind, body and spirit. Welcome back to the MindBodyDetox podcast. I'm your host, mindbodymedium, cara Lovehart, and today we're going to talk about the topic of ultra-processed foods, how they are affecting our diet and causing dangerous health symptoms and addictive eating behaviors, and including how they're affecting our gut microbiome. And to lead this discussion, we're going to be inviting back Dr John Neustadt. So if you have not listened to our previous episodes with Dr John, these are very popular episodes. I encourage you to check them out. Topic is reversing depression and mood with functional medicine, holistic sleep health and how to make sure you're getting your money's worth when you're ordering or purchasing supplements. So those are fantastic episodes we did with Dr John.

Kara Lovehart:

So today with Dr John, if you have not heard of him before. He's the founder and president of Nutritional Biochemistry Incorporated, and he is a naturopathic doctor. He earned his medical degree from Bastyr University, where he received the Founder's Award for his outstanding academic and clinical achievement. He also contributes to training physicians nationwide as the editor of Laboratory Evaluations for Integrative and Functional Medicine. That is a textbook, and he has over a hundred published medical articles and four health and wellness books to his name. The number one bestselling Amazon book he has on osteoporosis is called Fracture Proof your Bones. So if you're interested in that, we'll pop it in the show notes. But again, we are so excited and thrilled to have Dr John back. He is packed full of information and this conversation is one you don't want to miss, so let's get into the interview. Welcome back to the show, dr Neustadt. I'm so happy that we have you back on again. Thanks for taking your time to be with us today.

Dr. John Neustadt:

Oh, my pleasure, Thank you.

Kara Lovehart:

So I'd love if you could start by explaining to us what exactly ultra-processed foods are and how are they different from whole or minimally processed foods?

Dr. John Neustadt:

Ultra-processed foods are basically products of industrial engineering. There's a categorization system called the NOVA classification system that was developed to look at the spectrum of food processing all the way from minimally processed foods. There are four categories. So there's minimally processed foods, processed culinary ingredients, processed foods and then ultra processed foods. Processed foods and then ultra processed foods and, as the names sort of imply, you know, when you start there with minimally processed foods there's not a lot going on in terms of how they're being changed, how their chemical composition is being altered. You've got that includes this minimally processed category includes, just, you know, cleaning, grinding, crushing, pulverizing, seasonings for cooking, syrups, sugar, honey, plant oils like olive oil, that's processed culinary ingredients, and then processed foods.

Dr. John Neustadt:

You get the processing techniques also include maybe some fermentation, but it's non-alcoholic fermentation, pickling, canning, alcoholic and non-alcoholic fermentation, and examples are canned vegetables, meat, fish, legumes or fruit, nuts. Those are processed foods. And then the ultra processed foods are the ones that go through multiple series of steps in processing. So extraction, where they really take apart the food and break it down into its individual components, like the starches and the proteins, and recombine it in different ways, reassemble it. So examples of that are going to be soda, soft drinks, breakfast cereals, any fast foods that are out there, industrially produced breads like chicken nuggets, fish nuggets, flavored yogurts and essentially, if it comes in a package and essentially if it comes in a package.

Kara Lovehart:

It's probably an ultra-processed food. So what percentage of Americans' calories come from ultra-processed foods and why have they become such a large part of our modern diet?

Dr. John Neustadt:

The statistics are shocking. When I started to look more deeply into this issue, it's now estimated that almost 60% 57% of calories in the American diet come from ultra processed foods. Now it's not distributed equally in our society. Like a lot of a lot of you know health issues, there are exposures, can be more frequent exposures to things based on whether somebody lives in poverty or whether they're wealthy, and in this case, the lower socioeconomic rungs of our society are consuming higher amounts because it is cheaper and it's faster. So some of the reasons why it's become so popular is because, first of all, it's ubiquitous. It's everywhere.

Dr. John Neustadt:

You go into a gas station, you go into a drugstore, you go into any supermarket and it's the bright packaging, the reds and the blue, pretty colors with exciting words on it that catches people's attention. And they're less expensive than whole foods in general and they take less time to assemble. So people who are short on time it's more convenient than just to grab a ready to eat ultra processed meal or ultra processed food. But if you look at the different exposures across our society of who's consuming these and you compare Walmart versus Target, or I mean Walmart versus Whole Foods in Whole Foods you have about or in I'm sorry in Walmart and Target about 40% more of the foods are ultra-processed than they are in whole foods and in fact you have 75% of what are called UPF markers.

Dr. John Neustadt:

Those are ingredients that indicate that something's an ultra-processed food, like artificial flavors, artificial colors these emulsifiers that they put in like guar gum colors, these emulsifiers that they put in like guar gum. That 75% more of those are seen in foods in Walmart and 57% more in products in Target than in Whole Foods. So overall, about 58% of staples in the US leading supermarkets are ultra processed and that's 41% more than in Europe. So we're just getting inundated everywhere we go and some people are getting more exposure and more marketing toward them than others. We've heard of food deserts and there's also sort of this UPF sea of exposure out there where, if you go down in some neighborhoods, if you drive around, you may see literally on three or even four, all four of the corners of an intersection, a fast food drive-through or fast food restaurant there, you know, kf, mcdonald's or any of it, and so people block after block after block. That can be one of the limited, one of the options that they're limited to.

Kara Lovehart:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so I grew up you know we're farmers and what's really interesting about my journey? I, you know we're farmers and what's really interesting about my journey I, you know, was overweight, like very overweight, because I was working. I was working third shift at one of the gas stations before my son was born and I went into these this this is, if you're in the Northeast, this is Sheetz gas stations they have very overly processed foods, everything's processed, and I went in there the other day walking around thinking what do I need? I need to get something, and it's really interesting that every single thing pretty much maybe 2% of the products I can actually have at this time.

Kara Lovehart:

And I think that, being here in central Pennsylvania, we have a lot of access to farmland but there is still food deserts down in the cities. Even in Harrisburg, in Harrisburg, the capital of Pennsylvania, there was still that happening. So I think maybe, just being a farmer, coming from farmers, it's been kind of part of our passion as a family to bring more awareness to the lack of food, the lack of fresh, healthy food. So one of the things my sister did, she started something called the Pepper Street Garden in Harrisburg and it is two city blocks that were completely deserted and now it's a full garden that the people that live on that street still continue to harvest and work with, and it's some of those things that there is no access to this stuff.

Kara Lovehart:

But also I'm curious about the marketing too. But also I'm curious about the marketing too. If you don't have awareness of what we're going to talk about next, what the health risks are, it doesn't really seem like it's something that's a big deal, and especially because it's socially acceptable to eat a certain way. I don't know if I told you this in the last episode, dr Noosa, I live in the snack food capital of the United States. We have Utz, we have Snyder's pretzels, we have martin's potato chips. It's the potato chip capital, which you know. That's, that's what it is well, those are all great.

Dr. John Neustadt:

I love those products too. Uh yeah, but it's a matter of a degree, like how much is somebody consuming?

Kara Lovehart:

yeah, yeah. So what? What is the health risks and statistics associated with the ultra-processed foods?

Dr. John Neustadt:

Yeah, there's a lot of epidemiological research that has been done over the years and universally it's concluded that there's a dose-response relationship. And what does that mean? The more somebody eats ultra-processed foods, the larger part of their diet that this category of food is and I even hesitate calling it food, but for lack of a better word that the more that is part of somebody's diet, the greater the risk. And so it's associated with ADHD in children and specifically ADHD in children. And specifically multiple studies have noticed the artificial colors that are in foods and added to foods, creating behavioral challenges in children who are susceptible to that.

Dr. John Neustadt:

Depression, irritable bowel syndrome, obesity, cancer, frailty, which is a risk for all-cause mortality, for falling and breaking a hip if you have osteoporosis, and ultra processed food consumption is now one study came out showing it is a risk for osteoporosis, metabolic syndrome, a cognitive decline in dementia, cardiovascular disease, acid reflux and death itself. All cause mortality. And so if your listeners haven't really understood at this point that consuming these foods, it's not just somebody saying, oh, you're eating too much sugar, you know, cut the. Don't drink so much soft drink, don't drink so much soda, switch to a diet soda. Well, diet soda is an ultra processed food as well.

Dr. John Neustadt:

And even the artificial or non caloric sweeteners have been shown to increase the risk for diabetes and obesity. So if it's not a whole food or a minimally processed food, if it is an ultra processed food, we can talk about how people can identify that, but if it's not an ultra processed food, if it is an ultra processed food, even if you think you're switching to a safer one or you see these packages that say you know, now they start marketing themselves as high protein, high fiber, low sugar that doesn't really matter when you're looking at the health of benefits. If it's still an ultra processed food, because of all the other chemicals are in there and because of how the different ratios of the macronutrients are, the lack of micronutrients that are just stripped out. Those are the vitamins and minerals it just has all of these dangerous downstream biochemical, physiological and health effects that nobody wants.

Kara Lovehart:

So what I'm hearing is not only the added chemicals that potentially are affecting the body, but the nutrient deficiencies that are also potentially caused by not having these nutrients vitamins and minerals. Is there anything else about the ultra-processed foods that is a part of why it's contributing to these conditions.

Dr. John Neustadt:

Well, a big reason is because it is addictive. So one of the challenges with ultra-processed foods how they are manufactured, how they're designed. I mean they're literally designed to increase consumption. They tend to be soft. People can eat them faster. They don't have to chew as much. When you're eating a plant and you're eating vegetables, there's fiber in there and you have to chew and it slows down how fast you are consuming the food and it gives your time in your body time to react and your hormones time to signal that you're full. When you're eating an ultra processed food, they tend to be soft, low in fiber and people can eat them quickly and so they're consuming higher volume, higher amounts of this food, higher calories, before they even think they're full. But beyond that, researchers have shown that there is an addiction. People can become addicted to ultra processed foods. It fits the definition that was created for smoking definition.

Dr. John Neustadt:

The standards of addiction for tobacco are that it causes highly controlled or compulsive use. I don't know about you, but I've definitely experienced eating a bag of chips or eating something out of a bag that's obviously an ultra processed food and not being able to stop or putting it aside and then unwittingly going back and finding myself, without even consciously knowing, eating it again or going through a whole half a bag or more of an ultra processed food when I thought I would only have a few bites. So highly controlled or compulsive use is one of the hallmarks of tobacco addiction that we also see with ultra-processed food consumption. It causes psychoactive, like mood altering effects via their effect on brain. That we see also with ultra-processed food. It reinforces behavior. So there's reinforcement with with that behavior, with consuming the ultra processed food, not just because of the packaging, you get the visual signals that make the package attractive to our brain and make us think that it's going to give us nutrition and be good for us, and so we grab it. And that's sort of that reinforcement of the behavior.

Dr. John Neustadt:

Then is added to when you consume it and it activates chemicals in our body and our brain that give us pleasure and it has that crunch, it has enough saltiness, it has the sweetness that our bodies crave. So there's both external and internal rewards that we get from them and that are designed into the package, totally designed into the products themselves. None of this is by chance. And the last thing is that it triggers strong urges or cravings, so most implicated in this sort of addictive-like behaviors are the carbohydrates and added fats in UPFs. But research does now show a clinical trial has shown it goes definitely beyond that because it disrupts our endocrine system. It disrupts that what are called satiety I have a hard time saying that Satiety signaling hormones like GLP-1. And so it is really this feed forward system that once somebody starts to eat it and starts to get a habit of eating this way, there's a physiological addiction also that occurs.

Kara Lovehart:

I mean, I'm not, I'm not meaning to pick on Pringles, but Pringles it's in their marketing. Once you pop, you can't stop, and yeah.

Dr. John Neustadt:

Well, and also, if you look at, it's the Pringles, it's the curved chip right.

Kara Lovehart:

Yes.

Dr. John Neustadt:

Is that right? So, and it comes in the tube? Yes, Is that right and it comes in the tube? Yes, so there's a brilliant book I mentioned it to you before we started recording that got me started really looking at this research and looking at the primary data and the studies, and it's called Ultra Process People and in there he talks about Pringle and how Pringles they design their chip. So it's this curve that fits perfectly over somebody's tongue and to hit all of the taste receptors, all those salt receptors and the taste receptors simultaneously, to give you a huge burst of that flavor.

Dr. John Neustadt:

And the other thing, too, to think about is if you look at the amount of sugar, this astronomical amount of sugar that's in in a soda, you can't if it's just sweet. If you were to take that much sugar, which is tablespoons of sugar, and just put them on your just in spoons and start eating, there's no way you could consume it raw. But when you add it with carbonation, it becomes like your mainlining sugar. It overrides that sensation. That's how they can feed you more sugar without your body rejecting it.

Kara Lovehart:

Yeah, yeah, and I love the whole topic in general of just sugars. Being a recovering sugar addict, that's one of my vices there. So, when it comes to the chemicals and the additives because so, for example, pringles, there is a brand out there that I'm always trying to find alternative brands Like, of course, I try to do as much whole food as possible, but there's still sometimes, like you know what I want to have, you know, a processed chip or something like that. So what are the chemicals and the additives that we want to look for in the particular ultra processed foods, to kind of tell the difference? Because I'll give an example there's a brand that's like Pringles, called Good Good Crisps, and you know I'd like to, after this episode, go back and look at the ingredients and just kind of see is it still ultra processed, based on the definition?

Dr. John Neustadt:

I would imagine that it is, and there are different ways that people can try and navigate this. It can be challenging out there and it depends on really how technical people want to be, because there's a long list of nutrients. It's not just the foods, the ingredients that are added, like flavor enhancers or colors or emulsifiers or anti-foaming agents, leavening agents, I mean there's a whole long list of those. But it's also, as I mentioned before, it's breaking down that food. But it's also, as I mentioned before, it's breaking down that food. So you've got a whole potato. If it's a potato chip and you're breaking it down and stripping out the fiber from it and frying it, which gives free radicals, creates free radicals in there, and so if it's a packaged food, again it's likely an ultra-processed food. About 70%, 71% of packaged foods in the US are ultra-processed foods, so you're pretty much certain, almost certain, that it is. Now, I don't think that means that everybody has to totally avoid that In trying to understand. You know, is it an ultra-processed food? Should I avoid it? Should I not avoid it? Should I limit my consumption of it? There's some good rules of thumb that people can experiment with and see what works for them, because I think it's going to be extremely difficult for anybody to become an expert in every single ingredient in every packaged food. I mean there's polysorbate 80, there's guar gum, I mean there's just a whole long list of things that if there's a, if there's a nutrient in the list of ingredients and you don't know what that means, what the word is, I would say probably just avoid it. In the book ultra processed foods, the author who's looked at this research, he settled upon what also could be a practical solution for people, and that is, if it's not a common ingredient that you would find in your kitchen, then it's ultra processed food and you should probably avoid it. So those are a couple of rules of thumb that people can that I think are practical, because there are more than 2,000, in Europe there are 2,000 food additives. More than that In the US, where it's even the number of food additives is even higher. There are over 10,000 food additives in foods in the US. Most of those have never been subject to studies in the real world, if they even have some studies before they were approved for the market. Maybe they were mouse studies, maybe they were theoretical studies, but these real-world studies out there of how they're affecting physiology and health are not done, and so this is just a giant experiment that the food industry is running.

Dr. John Neustadt:

It comes out of a history really of. In the US, the problem used to be globally. In many advanced countries globally, the problem was people not getting enough calories, and so there are incentives by the government that were put into place to help these food companies and these manufacturers create foods that could travel farther, that didn't need refrigeration, because refrigeration was an issue, and also we're providing calories where there was a deficiency of calories in people's diets, and you see that in the 1930s and the 1940s, and so these industrial processes were seen as a way to help deal with those public health crises, and it did a great job of doing that. This came out of a real, identified public health need, but now that's no longer the case. We don't have a deficit of calories in the US. We have an excess of calories, and we have a deficit still, though, of access to affordable, healthy, whole foods. There should be more, in my opinion, subsidies for vegetables and fruits, and less for these industrially processed foods.

Kara Lovehart:

So, when it comes to the Human Microbiome Project, where they're studying all the different microbes in the gut, how do these additives in ultra-processed foods affect the gut health or promote inflammation? What is the connection there?

Dr. John Neustadt:

the gut health or promote inflammation. What is the connection there? So let's just talk about two of them. One are their emulsifiers. One's called polysorbate 80 or P80, and the other is abbreviated CMC carboxymethyl cellulose. So polysorbate 80, for example, it's used as an emulsifier. It's also used in baking, in ice creams, and what happens is when you get these industrially produced packaging of ice cream, they want to have a longer shelf life and they want to be able to last longer outside of the refrigerator without melting. And this is not all brands, but you'll see it out there. If you look, you'll see polysorbate 80 in some of these ice creams and other additives like guar gum, other additives like guar gum. That what happens? The role that that plays. It takes the place of fat, which spoils easily, and it gives that smooth, creamy texture to ice cream. Well, what the research has shown animal studies with these emulsifiers the P80 and the CMC is that they also induce low-grade inflammation in the gut. They increase the risk for obesity and metabolic syndrome. This is in mice and so, notably so, they did two different mice studies or mice that had a normal microbiome, had good, healthy bacteria in their gut, and then what are called germ-free mice mice without any bacteria in their gut and then what are called germ-free mice mice without any bacteria in their gut. And those who did not have any bacteria in their gut their microbiome had completely been wiped away. They did not experience any of those health effects. So it appears that the problem that's happening is that it's modulating and changing and affecting the microbiome, which then starts to increase inflammatory molecules and inflammation in the gut and damage to the gut lining and you get all of these downstream effects. And now there's research showing, actually, that these emulsifiers do in fact change the gut microbiome and reduce diversity. So we want to have a lot of diversity in the types of bacteria that are in our guts and those consumption of those emulsifiers and probably other additives as well, I would imagine you know change that and reduce the diversity and create a more unhealthy gut microbiota. And in fact you see increases of certain genera, like pseudomonas has been shown and that is associated with altered anxiety-like behaviors and you see those anxiety-like behaviors change in the mice. So some of these behavioral changes or psychiatric changes we may be seeing in people emotional changes as they're consuming more and more of these ultra processed foods maybe also due not just disrupting hormones, but also due to disrupting the microbiome In models of irritable bowel disease.

Dr. John Neustadt:

These emulsifiers made it even worse. It increased the inflammation, it promoted that what's called colitis, that inflammation of the colon, and aggravated it even when it didn't alter the microbiome. So and there's one study where it didn't change the microbiome but it still created this colitis and irritable bowel disease. In the animals there's a type of organism in the gut called a bacteriophage. Bacteriophages are organisms that eat bacteria. They eat the unhealthy bacteria. So in that one study where it increased colitis and the inflammation in the gut, it didn't change the microbiome, but what it did is it reduced the number of organisms that ate that killed the bad bacteria. And so we're still teasing apart and the research is really trying to figure out how this web of interactions in our gut is being affected by these ultra-processed foods. But regardless of the mechanism and I'm sure what they're going to find out is they're all interrelated. The the all the results are clear. These are not healthy for our gut or systemically.

Dr. John Neustadt:

Uh, there was a study that looked at 17 different emulsifiers. I just mentioned two. Right, there are other ones. You know maltodextrin that people may see that's an emulsifier, just read the ingredients Ultradextrin that people may see that's an emulsifier. Just read the ingredients Carrageenan gum, arabic xanthan gum, guar gum, locust bean gum any of those gums and all of those altered the microbiome in the mouse study In humans. This is actually a human study, I'm sorry. A human study changed the microbiome. Just those, not even the whole packaged food itself. They were just looking at consumption of those ingredients, those emulsifiers.

Kara Lovehart:

Well, I'm curious when it comes to the microbiome, there's this cognitive dissonance that I think is going to be part of the process for transferring the information to the public about the biome, how it affects their mental health, their physical health, inflammation, and also for ultra-processed foods. So what are your thoughts on that? As you continue, as an educator, educating the medical industry about this, I'm curious what do you think is going to take as far as continuing to help people understand, because I think that's the biggest challenge as practitioners in general to help clients really understand this, or patients really understand this and it to not just go and their eyes glaze over and they go. No, I can't even deal with that. There's too many other things to look at in my life right now.

Dr. John Neustadt:

That's a great question and it's a very challenging issue and I'll take it from a number of angles because I don't the way that I'm hearing your question and understanding it is that it comes down to personal responsibility, but I don't think that the blame all lays with the individual, but I don't think that the blame all lays with the individual.

Dr. John Neustadt:

Yes, individuals can make choices on a day-to-day basis. But changing habits and behaviors especially when the research shows that there is addiction real addiction to these foods is not so simple as somebody just saying, oh, stop doing that. Yes, and what I don't want to do is blame the victim, and I do believe that we are all victims of this in some sense, because we're all consumers of these really slick marketing campaigns and ad campaigns that we're all exposed to. So I'd like to take that question, if it's okay with you, in certain kind of categories, categories of answers. One has to do with, yes, the personal responsibility.

Dr. John Neustadt:

And, first of all, the first step to any change, any behavioral change, for anybody, is just awareness, awareness that there's a problem, awareness there's an issue, awareness that we want to change. Somebody can see for themselves that they want a different future than what they're living now and where they're going. Unfortunately, in my experience in medicine, that only tends to happen when people are sick. People, preventative medicine and the promise of prevention that people are going to be proactive. The reality is most people are not proactive. Most people don't do things until they're suffering or struggling in some way with pain or they get some blood tests worked back and their doctor's, like you're, at high risk for heart disease or they start to experience some cognitive decline, whatever it is. And so one of the challenges clinically that we have our clinicians aren't really trained well enough to talk to patients about how to change their behavior. And I work with. When I work with patients, I'm very clear when it comes to dietary changes. I don't want anybody to change, make radical changes over time, because those tend not to be sustainable. We've got decades. People do it the same way for decades and decades, so these are ingrained habits. And they've got snacks in their cupboards that need to be addressed, even spices, the way people cook, the way they shop, what's in their refrigerator, and not just that, how things are organized. And so I walk people through a three-step process that I created called three steps to eating healthy for life. There's an article on that on my website. It's also in my book by osteoporosis book that walks people through that process, how to begin to make that transition. And the first thing is awareness, so understanding how you're eating right now, quantifying what are you consuming right now, and then understanding then what eating healthy looks like. So you've got a roadmap and you can begin to transition into eating that way.

Dr. John Neustadt:

When it comes to snacks and ultra processed foods, oftentimes it requires people to start shopping differently, going down different aisles, organizing their cupboards differently to reduce what psychologists call friction. So when the brain processing speed is so incredibly fast and you can't override it, you can't muscle through it with executive function and just will things away. That whole campaign that I grew up with, just do it. Where executive function, where you could will things into existence or will your behavior to change, it doesn't work Because people primarily what happens is there's a part of the brain that's more the emotional center of the brain, the amygdala of the brain, that processes, not in words, which our cerebral cortex, that executive function, the frontal lobe that helps us make decisions and rationalize what we're doing, works in language. The amygdala, the emotional part of brain, doesn't. It works in images and its speed of processing is so much faster you can't override it. And so that's why when people are, if they have an option between two things and they are maybe about equal value, they're going to go with the thing that is easier to achieve, where there's less friction there.

Dr. John Neustadt:

So the example with food is, if I look at my cupboard and at eye level there are the whole, the nuts, the bags of almonds and walnuts, and down below that where I actually have to bend down are the bags of chips that we have or some of those ultra processed foods are lower. It's easier for me to grab the whole foods, the nuts, the healthier snacks than the unhealthier snacks, and so I'm more likely to do that because it's just easier. Even if it just takes, research has shown, a couple of seconds less to do an activity, the person is more likely to achieve that activity. So I'm part of transitioning and where that personal behavior comes in to play in eating this way is beginning to learn how you can structure your environment to make it easier to eat healthier. And you notice, I didn't say to make it easier to not grab a whole food, to make it easier to avoid that, because, again, it's not necessarily about willpower in and of itself, it's about creating an environment that makes it easier for you to succeed. It makes it harder for you to fail. So that's part of the overall approach that I take.

Dr. John Neustadt:

And when it comes to clinicians, clinicians aren't trained to really have those really nuanced conversations or understand or even do a you know a FaceTime call with somebody and say you know, walk me through your cupboard, let's take a look at your environment, let me look in your spice drawer, let me look in your refrigerator.

Dr. John Neustadt:

And it's really important conversations with people, because oftentimes there are easy things people can do that are simple, cost-effective, don't take a lot of time to implement. That just begins to move the needle in the right direction. When it comes to other challenges with answering this question of how do we begin to move the needle on moving this pattern of eating towards a healthier pattern, part of it has to come down to legislation. There is what we've seen when there are penalties for consuming a certain food, like sugary drinks. Some areas of the world have put sugar tax on sodas. The consumption of those goes down, and so taxing, using the incentive financial incentives of taxes, can possibly help move the needle, as well as lowering barriers to choosing healthier options, like lowering the cost of fruits and vegetables. That would be helpful as well. So I think that it really takes an approach that is multifaceted to tackle this issue from a public health issue, but there is a lot of things that the individual as a single person can do for themselves.

Kara Lovehart:

Yeah, and I think that if anyone's out there is listening and you have changed your life, changed your diet, changed you know anything that has improved your health and for the for the better, that's sustainable, that's long term as a lifestyle, um, I think that that is the biggest you know thing that you can do to influence your family, your community, because then they see and then they'll eventually start asking you and I think that makes a really big ripple effect.

Dr. John Neustadt:

It's about developing, as you alluded to, developing a new habit, and habits aren't created overnight. I have people quantify a little bit. I have people focus on protein and fiber, how much of each of those categories they're getting, and sort of understand how to eat more of a plant forward diet to get those nutrients. And then once somebody develops an intuitive way of what it is like to eat, that way they can relax more. They don't have to think about it all the time because your body, first of all, is going to have new cravings.

Dr. John Neustadt:

Oftentimes people who are consuming ultra processed foods which are incredibly sweet, they will taste a fruit like an apple and not think it's sweet because they're so used to this industrial experience, this chemical, artificial experience of this ultra-sweet. And, by the way, in evolutionary terms, when something was sweet it was typically a signal that it's going to have vitamins and minerals in it a fruit, a whole fruit, for example. And that's not the case when it comes to ultra-processed food. So our bodies have learned to crave that sugar and crave that sweetness Also because sugar is a primary fuel source in our body and when we're hunter gatherers we were not having a lot of that sugar readily available at all times of the day or night, and in fact we have the metabolism in our bodies to take extra sugar and store it, convert it and store it to fat so that when we, when we do need it and it comes back to that story in the you know 19, early 1900s, you know, when there was a there's a deficit of calories, when people weren't getting enough. Well, sugars have a lot of calories in them and so when you end up consuming the sugar and it tricks your taste buds, that's what you then start thinking is normal sweetness.

Dr. John Neustadt:

And as you begin to transition into eating a more plant forward, you know whole foods, diet and away from eating so much ultra processed foods. Initially, those new whole foods that you're eating maybe aren't going to taste as sweet as they used to be, but over time, over in my experience, you know, three to six weeks, your taste buds and your, your, your hormones and your biochemistry, you know they're going to change and what didn't taste sweet before, as sweet like an apple, is going to it's going to taste better. Then you go back to eating an ultra-processed food, like I do now. I used to eat a lot more when I was younger than I do now, when I taste something and I don't have an example off the top of my head, but cola canned soda is one I guess I cannot drink it. It is so disgustingly sweet to me.

Kara Lovehart:

Yes, yes, no. I completely relate to that and I think I've talked to people that have the same experience, where their taste buds changed. But I even think, for me, my sense of smell changed. Was it that I was deficient in minerals and nutrients? I wasn't getting that. My smell increased afterwards, I don't know, but even to the point where I would go and I thought how did I not smell this before? How did I not smell the chemicals in the brand new clothing store or department store? When I walk in, I smell it. How did I not smell that before? How did I not taste this? It's way too sweet. Or even for myself, I'm really sensitive now to just inorganic food or that's been heavily sprayed. If I have something that I'm like, wait a minute, I taste it, and I never thought that that would be something that I would notice. It's very something, I guess, and only when you experience it that you start to recognize.

Dr. John Neustadt:

Yeah, and I think that's the case also that people don't even notice how many of these artificial ingredients, these industrial ingredients, are in foods, even foods that are considered health foods. So nature-made iron supplement, for example, it's a dietary supplement. So people naturally are going to think, oh, this is healthy for me. But if you look on the label and it's really looking at other ingredients, there's a category of label that's called other ingredients in dietary supplements. Well, in this nature made iron product, it has polysorbate 80 and polyethylene glycol. Right to me, it's the cumulative additive benefit. What else are you maybe consuming that also has these emulsifiers or these added ingredients? It's about the overall dietary pattern. I'm not saying avoid that supplement per se, although I don't think it's a great formula, but it's the overall dietary pattern. It's additive, cumulative of what you're eating throughout the day. So, baskin Robbins, if you love Baskin Robbins ice cream, it's chocolate chip ice cream has guar gum and carrageenan in it and polysorbate 80. So you're getting it from there. Mono and diglycerides also shown to create problems. Scope Crest, scope Mouthwash has polysorbate 80 in it. Now, you're not swallowing that and I looked up studies to say, okay, is there any research showing that the oral microbiome is affected by swishing and spitting out polysorbate 80 or something with polysorbate 80? There are no studies at all on the effects of the oral microbiome of polysorbate 80. Yet we know if you swallow it, as the research I talked about, it does create problems and so is scoped mouthwash. Probably better if you can recognize the ingredients, to just choose something maybe that doesn't have it. Even the alternatives. If you look at the soy type products so delicious non-dairy ice cream, their salted caramel crunch ice cream has locust bean gum Again another gum extract shown to create problems and disrupt the microbiome and guar gum in it.

Dr. John Neustadt:

Mission Organics just because it says organic doesn't mean that it's healthier. Mission Organics tortillas have carrageenan in it and guar gum and xanthan gum. And even Welch's fruit snacks that I know I fed to my kids and they loved it. Has red 40 and blue, number one artificial colors that have been associated with behavioral issues in children and ADHD symptoms in children who are susceptible to it. So reading the packages also, I think it becomes a really helpful exercise for people to begin to recognize and understand you know what they may be consuming and how they might be able to modify or change. But even the food packaging itself has been shown to create some issues and problems.

Dr. John Neustadt:

So food contact chemicals is what it's called. So anything that's in a package and it's touching the food itself, and that may be both in the storage of the food, in the distribution of the food, in the packaging or processing, or even serving, like if there's saran wrap or something over it you know that plastic touching it. Well, they looked at 3,600 chemicals that are called food contact chemicals and 25% of those were found in humans, so that exposure is getting into the food and then we're consuming it, and that exposure to these food contact chemicals has been associated and linked to, you know, carcinogenicity, you know cancer causing chemicals, reproductive toxicity, hormone disruptors like bisphenol A and phthalates, plasticizers there's a very long list and on many of these chem thousands and thousands of chemicals, like I mentioned before, that are in our foods or in our food packaging, there's just incomplete or missing toxicity data.

Dr. John Neustadt:

It just doesn't exist in many cases.

Kara Lovehart:

Yeah, yeah, and it's funny to see that this information is kind of diving a little bit deeper here, into even the know, even even the healthy things that you think are healthy, that you may need to just really check a little bit. I'm kind of curious about examples of processed or packaged foods that may not be ultra processed just because it's, it's helpful for someone that's thinking okay, maybe I eat a lot of whole foods, but what about? What about the oatmeal that I get that's in a you it's not prepackaged with the sweetener and the coloring and things like that. But do you have any examples of things that you might purchase at a grocery store that would be packaged, that wouldn't necessarily be ultra processed?

Dr. John Neustadt:

Oh, that's a great question and I also want to say to people because, as I'm thinking about, what we've talked about and what we've both said makes me not want to eat. Anything Like this is scary stuff to me and but there's no way, first of all in our modern world, that you can avoid all the chemicals. It's just not. It's impossible minimizing your risk, in my opinion and just try to eat as healthy as possible, given finances, given time constraints, because it does take more time to create your meal versus buying a prepackaged meal and people have busy lives and busy schedules. So I'm very conscious of that, considerate of that and empathetic to those situations. I have two kids and my wife and I both have careers and I know when they were young we didn't really cook very much. It was more meal assembly Thank God for Costco Pre-made meatballs and packages of pasta and olive oil, and open a bag of peas and put it on there and that's dinner.

Dr. John Neustadt:

I mean it was quick and easy and we were just surviving when you were taking.

Kara Lovehart:

You're saying earlier, you know, um, the process for individuals it's not always preventative, it's not. It's till they have issues that they start to actually make changes. And I will just say, you know, for those who are listening to, an example for me and my son, you know, switching, getting rid of gluten, getting rid of sugar, this is things that were we, we needed to do it because we felt better. And even my son now it's pretty much a miracle that he's 18 and he eats very few processed foods and when he does, he went to his dad's the other day. He had a diet soda. He goes nope, he said.

Kara Lovehart:

I know that it affected me.

Kara Lovehart:

I felt brain fog for a day and it may be also because we have gut microbiome issues.

Kara Lovehart:

So we're really really sensitive to the switching and maybe people don't notice it, I don't know, but we're really sensitive to that stuff and it's something that just these breaking down a little bit further into looking in some of these chemicals will probably help us, because we're still trying to build our gut microbiome from lead toxicity and things that we experienced both of us, that it takes some vigilance to look at things from lead toxicity and things that we experienced both of us that that it takes, it takes some vigilance to look at things.

Kara Lovehart:

But I do have people that come say to me I don't think I can do that, that's so expensive or it's so much of a change. And I said, well, it's not really realistic for most people, unless you really, for your own well being, if it feels that this is what you need to do. And even then it's baby steps, because it took me 10 years to start, just little by little changing things. So I like that you said that, because I do think sometimes when people listen to our episodes they go, oh my gosh, everything's toxic. And I'm like, well, yeah, but it's about self-awareness and what can you do at that time?

Dr. John Neustadt:

So right and I love that you you raised that example because it reminds me of how I've talked to patients over all these many, many years and I'm working with them on dietary changes and one of the things I say and these are patients who come to me who are quite ill and they've been sick for quite a while, so they're highly motivated to change. So when I put them on this dietary kind of roadmap of how to change their eating behavior and develop new habits, I tell them typically I do three-month treatment plans with people based on testing and other intake questions and their goals, three-month programs and so I tell them don't change everything overnight, you know, because radical changes done quickly are not sustainable. You know, change over the. You know, educate yourself and let's make these changes over a period that's comfortable for you, whether it's, you know, three, four or six weeks. But when I talk about you know how the eating pattern and how I want them to eat, I'm like, look, see if you can just do this for six days, because if people have something a cheat day to look forward to, they're more likely, I've found to be willing to stick to it for a little bit. It's not as overwhelming and also because it's a three-month program, it's like, okay, it's three months, there's a finite amount of time I can do this. So I have these little milestones along the way that I know are going to give them experiences that are going to open their eyes, that are going to help and their awareness, that are going to help them then be more motivated to continue on this road of lifetime improvement and eating to promote their health for the rest of their life.

Dr. John Neustadt:

And one of those experiences is, if you follow this way of eating, eat clean, eat a plant forward diet for six days and then on the seventh day, eat whatever you want. Doesn't matter, whatever you want, go crazy. Every single time people come back and they tell me they were feeling good for those six days. On the seventh day they went off at day whatever they want. They feel like crap, brain fog, fatigue, lower mood, I mean you name it. And so that awareness again, going back to raising people's consciousness and awareness so that they can start to make better decisions for themselves, is an important part of the process. All this technical information is interesting, but the question is how do you operationalize it? How can you help people you know take this information and create positive changes in their life. And that's where you know, clinically, our clinical training is really falling short, unfortunately, and helping walk and and and shepherd people through these processes.

Kara Lovehart:

Yeah yeah. The cheat day thing is absolutely, absolutely why I've become successful. It was, oh my gosh, I have to have bread, oh my gosh, I have to have a sweet drink. And then it would be 10 days, 20 days, whenever I'd fall off the wagon. I wouldn't plan to have a cheat day, it was the amygdala taking over and I'm like I need to have this right now because I'm stressed or whatever going on.

Kara Lovehart:

That's the reality of the change, but it really is the more and more I clean up my diet. Of the change, but it really is the more and more I clean up my diet. It's still a process and I've gone pretty much three months with, on a regular basis, having a full green smoothie, lots of fiber in the morning, also healthy fats. That helps me so much that me and my son have been doing it and we skipped two days because of something and he, we were like we don't feel good, we need to have that, it's really important, it feels better to have it. And then, when we have things that we don't necessarily, you know, I made fall harvest cupcakes. I don't, I don't ever make cupcakes. Even though they were gluten-free, they had real buttercream, sugar icing and I had like a half of one and I was like they had real buttercream sugar icing. And I had like a half of one and I was like that's a little too sweet, but everyone else in the family they ate them, you know but I just really couldn't do it.

Dr. John Neustadt:

Well, when feeling low energy, when feeling like crap, is normal for a person, that's all they know. Your experience, similar to my own experience, when I cut things out of my diet like dairy, when I cut things out of my diet and started eating healthier, I started to feel better and then I became more aware of it. But this time of year you mentioned the fall, the fall drink or the fall harvest cookies, whatever it was this time of year is a minefield of sweet treats and snacks and ultra processed foods. You know we're recording this in October, so you've got Halloween, then you've got Thanksgiving and you've got, you know, christmas and you know, basically from October until January 1, you've got people who end up and I've done this myself many times. You know I'm no different from anybody else where I start to indulge in these sweet treats and before I know it, I get to January one and I've put on some pounds and my energy is lower and I'm looking back and like what did I just do?

Dr. John Neustadt:

It's that unconscious eating that becomes this autopilot people get on this time of year and that has to do also with the social effect. Eating is very social and research has shown, if you surround yourself by people who are smoking, people who are not exercising, people who are doing drugs, it is contagious you are more likely to adopt all of those habits. So, whatever somebody's eating, if you have a partner who's willing to do this with you. My wife and I really support each other and I hope everybody has this type of supportive either partner or a good friend where they can say let's do this together and you can encourage each other. That's another thing that's very, very helpful, whether it's with food or even in my book I talk about finding somebody to exercise an exercise buddy and make dates with them to go for walks, make it social, make eating social, make healthy eating social.

Kara Lovehart:

Yeah, absolutely, I love that. I love that so much. It's definitely the accountability, but then that social connection piece too is just helping you to continue to be inspired to be better. Yeah Well, I'd love to see if there's anything else as far as you're actually educating medical professionals, you have a continued education course, that you are providing this education to them, as you may be prepared to deliver that, I'm curious what's the key takeaway you really hope the medical professionals will gain and the insights you're going to provide and how we could potentially hopefully see that change. Um, interacting with, maybe, our medical doctors over the. It takes a while for that education to get out, but what would you hope to see for that?

Dr. John Neustadt:

That's a great question. I really appreciate it. I think there are two major things that I hope to achieve. One is doctors can be very judgmental. We're just people, right? And so when they see somebody who they think should be changing their diet and they're not, you know, they can start blaming the patient. In fact, there's a phrase in medicine they say the patient failed therapy, the patient which really sounds like it's the patient's fault, and in this case it's not. People are humans and we're all struggling with different things. It's not. People are humans and we're all struggling with different things.

Dr. John Neustadt:

And so having a little compassion and empathy and understanding of the dynamic of people's food choices and how they work and how people can take, how our brains work, can take how their days are structured with those limitations financially, with other other commitments to begin to start moving in the direction and really celebrate the small wins along the way instead of criticizing or focusing on how far somebody has to go or what they didn't do. So having a little more compassion, I think, is really important in medicine, and it's also important for us as individuals, for each one of us, to develop that compassion for ourselves. And someone once told me and this was a brilliant recommendation for me and my own internal self-critical voice that they said imagine if a child, your child or any child, were sitting right next to you. What advice would you give them? Would you criticize them? Would you talk to them like you're talking to yourself right now, in terms of those critical voices? How would you talk to them? And that really opened my eyes to starting to be even more compassionate and be more careful with the language that I use for myself as well, and being able to catch that. So that's one thing that I hope to accomplish.

Dr. John Neustadt:

The other thing I hope to accomplish with medical professionals is for them to be more aware of what they're consuming so that they can be better able to have these discussions with patients and understand how to help them.

Dr. John Neustadt:

A lot of doctors out there, while all the data may be out in the literature and unambiguous about what the healthiest way to live is and I'm not talking about smoking in this interview right now but there's still a lot of doctors who smoke, right, there's still a lot of doctors who aren't exercising, despite the health benefits of that. So it's about helping, hopefully, them learn how to be better role models because, honestly, in anything in life, we can only take people as far as we've gone ourselves, and so the more that we, as doctors, as educators, are moving in the direction of implementing and struggling to implement learning in the real world. How can we balance these different competing factors in our life, time, finances, children, all of that to still live as healthy as we can? It gives us the credentials, beyond anything we've learned in school, to be able to then take our patients even farther.

Kara Lovehart:

Thank you so much for saying that. I think, as I did my own work in my journey, finding more value for myself over the years, I started to have a pretty firm boundary with clinicians, doctors, therapists, coaches, people I worked with, asking them more questions like how far have they come? And you can't always ask your medical doctor what do you do, how do you eat. That's a challenge. But finding doctors that really are walking the talk and because I know that they can guide me in a in a much deeper way, that I and I value my time, I value the money I'm spending on these people and my own health, and I think that has been a game changer for me, being able to go a little bit for further than I was before, and I I think I was surprised when I had recognized that that was sort of an epidemic of helper people, helper professionals out there that don't always take care of themselves, and it is challenging.

Kara Lovehart:

So I love the self-compassion aspect as well. I think that that is, if you don't know what you don't know, you can't make any changes. If you're not fully resourced with energy, you're deficient in nutrients, if your chemicals that you're eating in your food are affecting your cognition and your choices, your sleep. How on earth can you make a change until you have someone who has walked that path, who can educate you with compassion, with giving you practical, easy steps that can really make it happen? So I really, really appreciate that and I look forward to seeing how many other clinicians and doctors are inspired by your work and many other educators out there that are doing the same, that are walking the talk and actually doing it so that we can make a big change. I think that's. I'm always inspired by that.

Dr. John Neustadt:

Thank you. I realized I didn't answer a question that you asked earlier about when somebody's in the store and they're looking at something, how can they make that decision? Oatmeal, I think, was the example you gave. So again, this is a process and I think for me when I go shopping there are certain rules of thumb that I go by that helps me make my decisions. It's not necessarily that I rely exclusively on this, but it helps guide my decision-making process.

Dr. John Neustadt:

So one is if it's a food, if it's an oil let's just talk about cooking oils, olive oil, for example you want to have it in plastic, in a dark colored I'm not in plastic, in glass, not in plastic in a dark colored glass jar. If it's oil, a lipid, and it's in plastic, it pulls the plastic into the oil. It leaches that plastic container into the oil. So you're getting that plastic into your food that you're then putting it on. So that's one thing. And similarly, if it's an acid food, like tomatoes, like pickles, you probably don't want it in plastic because acid will also leach the plastic into the food. So if you're getting pickles, you'll look for a glass container instead. The more whole a food is, like oatmeal yes, it's processed that would be considered a processed food, or maybe a minimally processed food, but it is the whole oat. That is steel-cut oatmeal, for example, put into a bag, it's dry and so having a lack of moisture decreases the ability for toxins to grow like bacteria or mold. So getting that and there's no added sugar in it, it's those instant oatmeal containers, the instant oatmeal that has the added sugar in it, the sweetened ones. That, to me, are the problems.

Dr. John Neustadt:

I actually eat oatmeal every morning for breakfast and I love the process of cooking it. I don't put added sugar in it. It's a half a cup of oatmeal and then a half a cup of walnuts, or sometimes a half a cup of pecans and a half a cup of berries, usually blueberries, and then a bunch of cinnamon on top. So I take my cinnamon shaker. I typically do, you know, 10 shakes of the cinnamon shaker on there. I've counted and that's usually just where I happen to stop and that's the amount that I like and that's what I eat every day and that keeps me, you know, full through the morning and gives me ample energy, and it's whole foods. So those are some of the rules In terms of shopping.

Dr. John Neustadt:

You're more likely to have healthier foods in the periphery of the aisle, the aisles that are on the outside of the store, the edges of the store, versus the aisles that are in the middle of of the store. So you know, if you sort of start, you know, looking at that, you know and look at what your route is. People typically go into a supermarket just like the commute to work, you know, using the same roads and going the same way every day. People enter the supermarket, they tend to go down the same first aisle. They go down first every time and have this pattern that they follow. Well, look at your pattern of shopping and start shopping more on the periphery, on the outside aisles, and see what you see and what might be there for you.

Kara Lovehart:

That is pretty much what I do. I love to hear that it's just the oils. Sometimes are in the inner aisles the oils and pasta.

Dr. John Neustadt:

I love pasta. I lived in Italy for about almost a year and a half and I absolutely love pasta. Now their wheat is different over there, and even their foods. When I go to Europe and I eat dairy, it doesn't affect me. And when I go to Europe and I eat dairy, it doesn't affect me. When I eat dairy here in the US, I get sinus congestion. It inflames my immune system. There's something in the dairy in the US. I don't know what it is, and that's where using yourself as your own experiment and really becoming in tune with your own body and how food's affecting you is really important, because all the data in the world is interesting, but ultimately it's you understanding how your body works and how things affect you and you taking more control over those choices and what you do so you can feel as best as you can.

Kara Lovehart:

Yeah, absolutely Well. The final question I would have for you, then, is you have so many resources on your website and you have a podcast as well, and if someone's switching to getting rid of ultra processed foods, do you have so many resources on your website and you have a podcast as well and if someone's switching to getting rid of ultra processed foods, do you have any resources for them? Are there even any supplements that would help them transition from cravings or things like that? Anything about that that you would like to share with us?

Dr. John Neustadt:

The resource that I would direct people to on my website is that article I mentioned, which is three steps to eating healthy for life, and that will guide people through a system of how to start transitioning into eating a healthier dietary pattern, a dietary pattern that's been shown to reduce the risk for diabetes, heart disease, cancer, death from cancer, osteoporosis, heart disease, cancer, death from cancer, osteoporosis, osteoporotic fractures, all-cause mortality, dementia. The list goes on and on. It's essentially a Mediterranean dietary pattern, and I've created a system of helping people then transition into eating healthier. The one thing that's missing typically in the discussion of the Mediterranean diet is making sure you're getting enough protein, so I really want people to focus on that as well. That's a great resource In terms of a supplement just for cravings.

Dr. John Neustadt:

The issue with cravings is multifactorial. There's lots of reasons why people get cravings. I already mentioned the external cues, the visual cues from the packaging that can stimulate cravings. Then there's hormone disruptions. I mentioned GLP-1. There's also another hormone called ghrelin. There's insulin, there's blood sugar and there are more and more. So there's not sort of this one magic pill. I would say that cravings can occur to people when they do have nutritional deficiencies, and people often, in my experience will crave sweets. When they say they're craving sweets and I run blood panels on them, they tend to be deficient in some minerals. So again back to that sugar topic that I talked about before. Where is sugar found? In nature it's found in fruits, and some vegetables are sweet, have some sweetness to them, and that has the minerals in it and the vitamins and other plant nutrients that we start to crave when we're deficient in those minerals and those nutrients. So a good multivitamin and mineral supplement I think is just a great insurance policy.

Dr. John Neustadt:

My Supreme multivitamin is an excellent one. I created it for my patients to provide good, healthy amounts of the most absorbable forms of minerals and high concentrations of the B-complex vitamins, plus additional antioxidants thrown in there, and so that's a great one for people to take. It's what I take every day. It's quite potent. So, for example, the serving size is four capsules. I find for me one is enough and other people it says on the bottle two to four, so a bottle can last you even longer.

Dr. John Neustadt:

Most people who need that full dose, I found, are the ones who are quite deficient. Most people, two capsules a day is just great and how you can probably know you're getting enough is. You want to make sure you're drinking enough water, so your urine is not too concentrated and I like to shoot for about 60 ounces a day. But if your urine starts turning yellow, people have told me well, I'm not absorbing the vitamins, that's, the B vitamins, specifically riboflavin. Vitamin B2 turns your urine yellow, but you are absorbing it through your intestines. Your body just doesn't need that much. The cells aren't taking it up anymore and it's being filtered through your kidneys and excreted in your urine. And I kind of use that as a gauge for myself of okay, do I need to back down, do I need a little more?

Kara Lovehart:

And while I'm making sure I'm also drinking enough water, yeah Well, I say that and anyone who has not had listened to the previous episodes with you, because we are really big fans of your supplements Sleep health we did holistic sleep health. We did reversing anxiety and depression with functional medicine and then also evaluating supplements, making sure you know what you're getting your money's worth. So definitely go back and listen to those episodes and I say the answer that Dr John gave us is, in my opinion, the best answer. The best answer is it's more complex than you think. I feel like if anyone is ever trying to give you that the one answer this is going to fix all this is the magic pill. At least in this day and age, we have to start becoming more aware of those things. It's awareness to help us not get duped into those things. It really is a multifaceted approach for a lot of things in our life. So that's what we talk about here.

Dr. John Neustadt:

We bring those topics to the surface. So I really appreciate that answer, as always, and I'm glad you mentioned sleep, because people aren't sleeping well and they're not getting enough sleep. That increases cravings also and decreases food, yeah, yeah absolutely Well.

Kara Lovehart:

Thank you very, very much again for being here with us. We really appreciate it and, yeah, we'll see you next time we get an episode with you. I'm sure we have some more topics we'll bring up, I'm sure.

Dr. John Neustadt:

I would love that. Thank you All right.

Kara Lovehart:

Thank you everyone again for listening and be well until next time. My friends, thank you for listening to the mind body detox podcast. If you love this podcast, share it with others and leave us a review. Your reviews help us more than you know and supports us continuing to make episodes and being heard from all over the world. You can also follow the link in our show notes to submit a topic that you would like to hear on the show.