101: Ketamine, Psychedelics, & PTSD Recovery with Dr. Tony Reigle

In this episode of the Mind Body Detox Podcast, Kara Lovehart, Mind-Body Psychic Medium and Executive Intuitive Coach, welcomes Dr. Tony Reigle, psychotherapist, and pioneer in psychedelic-assisted therapy. Together, they explore how ketamine and integrative healing practices are offering new hope to veterans and first responders living with PTSD.

✨ What you’ll learn in this episode:

• Why traditional treatments often fall short in trauma recovery
• How psychedelics like ketamine affect the nervous system and mental health
• Real stories of resilience and healing from the front lines
• A whole-person approach to trauma, wellness, and transformation

If you’ve ever wondered how psychedelics and holistic medicine are reshaping the future of mental health, this conversation will inspire and inform.

About Dr. Reigle 

Dr. Tony Reigle, PhD, LPC, CCTP-II is a Licensed Professional Counselor and Certified Level 2 Clinical Trauma Professional trained in Ketamine-Assisted Psychotherapy.  

He holds a doctorate in psychology and a graduate degree in marriage & family therapy from Capella University. 

Dr. Reigle has served in both active duty and the National Guard, deployed in Iraq, and volunteers as a first responder. 

He works across outpatient, inpatient, and trauma settings, and spearheads integrative trauma support for veterans, first responders, and healthcare workers. 

🔗 Connect with Dr. Tony Reigle
🌐 Learn more about the Central PA Psychedelic Society

🙌 Ready to elevate your journey? Let's connect and transform together!

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✨ Unlock Your Energy with My Free 7-Day Frequency Fix! Experience a transformative Mind-Body Reset designed to detox your energy blocks and revitalize your spirit. Learn More Here. Join the journey here.

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Transcript

 In this episode of the Mind Body Detox Podcast, Kara Lovehart, Mind-Body Psychic Medium and Executive Intuitive Coach, speaks with Dr. Tony Reigle, physician and pioneer in psychedelic-assisted therapy. Drawing from his groundbreaking work with veterans and first responders, Dr. Reigle explores how treatments like ketamine therapy and other integrative approaches are transforming the way we heal from PTSD and trauma. Listeners will learn why traditional models often fall short, how the nervous system responds to psychedelic medicine, and what these breakthroughs mean for the future of mental health and whole-person healing.
 
 

This is the Mind-Body Detox Podcast,
 where we discuss all things integrative
 
 health and wellness, interviewing folks
 from all over the world, sharing
 
 
 00:00:13,613 --> 00:00:20,86
 insights and wisdom for how to live a
 healthier life in mind, body, and spirit.
 
 Welcome back everyone to the Mind Body
 Detox Podcast.
 
 I'm your host, Mind Body Medium, Kara
 Lovehart.
 
 I'm very excited to bring on Dr.
 
 Tony Reigle today, and we're going to
 talk about psychedelics and specifically
 
 ketamine-based therapy.
 
 And we're going to talk about what it is
 and what is the benefits of it and how
 
 does it work.
 
 So Dr.
 
 
 00:00:41,808 --> 00:00:44,77
 Tony is a Harrisburg native.
 
 He is a military veteran and a licensed
 professional counselor with a doctorate
 
 in psychology.
 
 He has over a decade of service in the
 Air Force and the National Guard,
 
 including combat time and
 
 Dr.
 
 Rigel brings a deep understanding of
 trauma and resilience to his work.
 
 So he's trained in ketamine-assisted
 psychotherapy, prolonged exposure
 
 therapy, and neurolinguistic
 programming.
 
 He specializes in trauma, first
 responder mental health, and disruptive
 
 event management.
 
 He also teaches future therapists as an
 adjunct professor and volunteers his
 
 time supporting frontline workers and
 emergency teams.
 
 So we're going to tune into a powerful
 conversation on ketamine-based psychotherapy.
 
 Hi, Dr.
 
 Tony.
 
 Thanks for coming on.
 
 Hey, thanks for inviting me and for the
 great introduction.
 
 
 00:01:31,358 --> 00:01:32,92
 I appreciate it.
 
 Absolutely.
 
 So let's just dive into this topic.
 
 Like, let's give us a simple breakdown
 of what exactly ketamine-assisted
 
 
 00:01:41,34 --> 00:01:44,70
 psychotherapy is, and then we can talk
 about what ketamine actually is.
 
 Yeah, so I mean, ketamine-assisted
 psychotherapy is an assistive tool that
 
 is in conjunction with or integrated
 along with
 
 an array of standard modalities that
 people may have already experienced or
 
 
 00:01:59,352 --> 00:02:00,86
 may have sought.
 
 And it just kind of like bolsters some
 of the effectiveness and some of the
 
 opportunities that we can gain from some
 of these other things.
 
 And so it consists of a medication
 piece, and there's a variety of
 
 different ways that can be administered.
 
 But that kind of starts the process.
 
 And then we have the opportunity very
 shortly after that
 
 to incorporate some integration therapy.
 
 
 00:02:25,45 --> 00:02:29,516
 And again, that could be your standard
 prolonged exposure, EMDR, internal
 
 family system, CBT, a lot of studies
 that are showing how they work collaboratively.
 
 Well, then let's talk about what
 ketamine actually is.
 
 What does that molecule do to the body
 and how does that differ from other
 
 
 00:02:42,962 --> 00:02:47,33
 psychedelic assisted therapies like my
 psilocybin or MDMA?
 
 Yeah, as I may continue myself to learn
 more of the specifics and the mechanisms
 
 of some of the other medicines that are
 coming, my studies so far have been
 
 
 00:02:56,810 --> 00:03:00,80
 really into the neuroscience behind
 ketamine itself.
 
 So I don't have an incredibly deep
 expert, this is the definitive thing.
 
 We do know that there's a lot of
 similarities between the different
 
 
 00:03:09,923 --> 00:03:15,28
 medicines and how they're working in our
 brain and promoting neuroplasticity and
 
 
 00:03:15,28 --> 00:03:16,730
 the various neurotransmitters.
 
 But that's really where right now
 ketamine is shining.
 
 It was originally came to the market as
 a PCP derivative.
 
 It was just a safer, less side effect
 anesthetic back in the 70s, made its way
 
 onto the battlefield in Vietnam because
 it was a safer battlefield.
 
 medicine in which it doesn't require as
 much medical monitoring.
 
 So it actually has a high safety profile
 compared to some of the other anesthesias.
 
 
 00:03:52,65 --> 00:03:54,801
 It doesn't suppress respiratory.
 
 It doesn't increase your heart rate.
 
 So they could give it to downed
 soldiers, and they could move on to help
 
 other folks.
 
 
 00:04:03,276 --> 00:04:08,48
 It made its way into the recreational
 world, like most do, in the '80s and
 
 
 00:04:08,48 --> 00:04:09,849
 kind of became a party.
 
 party drug for a long period of time.
 
 
 00:04:13,286 --> 00:04:18,24
 It's misnomer as a horse tranquilizer
 was because in that recreational period,
 
 
 00:04:18,24 --> 00:04:21,528
 it was easier to get out of vet clinics
 than it was out of hospitals.
 
 So most of the ketamine that was making
 its way onto the streets in the party
 
 scene happened to have animal or horse
 on it.
 
 And that's a misnomer.
 
 It's not a, I mean, it is, but that's
 not originally why ketamine kind of came
 
 to the market.
 
 It just happened to be what was on the
 streets.
 
 it was included on the WHO or the World
 Health Organization's list of essential medicines.
 
 It has been on there for quite some
 time.
 
 
 00:04:52,92 --> 00:04:55,695
 And then, within the last five to 10
 years, we've been seeing a tremendous
 
 increase in studies around ketamine and
 many different things, chronic pain, migraines.
 
 
 00:05:03,603 --> 00:05:05,71
 We're looking at Alzheimer's, right?
 
 
 00:05:05,71 --> 00:05:08,241
 And now we obviously have it in mental
 health.
 
 So it's a pretty versatile medicine that
 is able to do a lot of fantastic things.
 
 
 00:05:17,50 --> 00:05:21,588
 In the medical or the mental health
 field, it really is how it works on some
 
 transmitters in our brain that allows us
 to kind of quiet down some old thinking
 
 patterns that have become disruptive
 
 
 00:05:33,66 --> 00:05:39,406
 or have held us back, while at the same
 time encouraging and promoting the
 
 ability to create and grow new ways of
 thinking or new neuropathways.
 
 And it is the exchange between quieting
 and loosening the grip of old thinking
 
 and strengthening more
 
 helpful thinking patterns that really is
 what aids or how ketamine aids these
 
 
 00:06:04,230 --> 00:06:07,33
 very standard modalities that have been
 around for quite some time.
 
 Now for like conditions like depression,
 PTSD, and anxiety, for someone who's not
 
 a mental health professional, can you
 explain maybe some examples of how this
 
 disrupting stuck pattern or this
 thinking pattern, what it would look
 
 like showing up for someone who has
 those diagnoses or conditions?
 
 And each carries with its own kind of
 thing.
 
 And so we know that very quickly, the
 properties of the medicine itself has a
 
 pretty quick and robust ability to
 reduce scent feelings or sensations or
 
 symptoms related to anxiety and
 depression.
 
 
 00:06:41,34 --> 00:06:48,308
 So we get that pretty quickly, which is
 a very favorable reason why ketamine can
 
 be effective in some regards.
 
 But again, it's the way it operates on
 our neurotransmitters.
 
 It's the way that it kind of blocks, you
 know, the NMDA.
 
 It just happens to be one of the
 receptors and it kind of quiets down.
 
 It kind of shuts down, closes that door
 and allows glutamate that really
 
 promotes, which has its own very robust
 antidepressant feature.
 
 
 00:07:16,2 --> 00:07:19,606
 Glutamate is very heavily involved in
 that process.
 
 And as it's able to surge that and allow
 it to not go into this receptor, but go
 
 into another, kind of builds up some of
 those levels in our body.
 
 And it is through those things that are
 building and branching and strengthening
 
 
 00:07:37,924 --> 00:07:43,29
 our neural connections that helps us
 combat some of that anxiety and depression.
 
 
 00:07:43,29 --> 00:07:46,166
 It is what standard pharmacology is
 attempting to do.
 
 So our SSRIs
 
 
 00:07:48,134 --> 00:07:52,5
 and a variety of other medications are
 attempting to do similar things.
 
 
 00:07:53,39 --> 00:07:55,442
 It just takes a little bit longer,
 right?
 
 Four, 6, 8.
 
 It takes a lot of figuring out and
 changing the right medications.
 
 So we're not necessarily saying it's
 brand new science, but it definitely is
 
 able to speed up that process a little
 bit.
 
 And it definitely speaks to other
 things.
 
 
 00:08:14,294 --> 00:08:16,96
 And one of those other things is this,
 
 
 00:08:16,863 --> 00:08:22,2
 the medicine also grows a fertilizer in
 our brain, if there's a lack of a better way.
 
 
 00:08:22,2 --> 00:08:24,4
 It's the best way of understanding it.
 
 It's a protein, BDNF.
 
 And BDNF really promotes and grows and
 is really involved in the maintenance of
 
 our neural connections.
 
 So we have a bunch of things happening
 at one time.
 
 We have a quieting
 
 of some of the default habitual thinking
 that views the world through the lenses
 
 of depression, through the lenses of
 anxiety, through the lens of trauma.
 
 It quiets that down, that default
 circuitry.
 
 And then it opens up a window of
 neuroplasticity, the way that it works
 
 on these neurotransmitters to increase
 the communication, the building, the
 
 
 00:09:04,611 --> 00:09:07,13
 strengthening of neuroconnections.
 
 
 00:09:07,13 --> 00:09:10,550
 And when we do that in conjunction with
 integration
 
 and integrative therapy, we essentially
 can train, we can train ourselves to
 
 think differently.
 
 And when we do that enough and those
 become strong enough, they kind of
 
 become our new default circuitry and
 we're able to shift that.
 
 So the way I tell clients to make sure
 no one feels hopeless is that, you know,
 
 the pretty standard ways we've been
 doing things for a while, it'd be kind
 
 of, if I gave you a block of granite and
 I said, you know, chisel your
 
 Michelangelo or your David or the...
 
 the Statue of Liberty, whatever.
 
 I mean, there's beautiful, beautiful,
 beautiful masterpieces out there
 
 chiseled from hard granite.
 
 Ketamine, it might be like some of the
 things that we're doing with psychedelic
 
 assisted therapy, still hard work, but
 it might be giving a block of clay.
 
 And it's a little bit more malleable and
 ask you to make the same masterpiece.
 
 And that's kind of what the assistive
 tool is that is psychedelic medicine.
 
 
 00:10:06,306 --> 00:10:08,8
 I love that analogy.
 
 getting into that neuroplastic state and
 you're able to, somewhat calm, you said
 
 the default mode network, is it?
 
 The default thinking?
 
 The DMN, yeah, the default mode network,
 yeah.
 
 The intrusive thinking, you know,
 obsessive thinking, like the part of the
 
 system that's in trauma response trying
 to protect.
 
 
 00:10:28,28 --> 00:10:32,565
 you, and what it's doing, but it's
 calming it down so you can create these
 
 
 00:10:32,565 --> 00:10:34,0
 new brain patterns.
 
 
 00:10:34,0 --> 00:10:38,405
 And I think that's really interesting
 because like we could do like weekly or
 
 even biweekly, like extreme counseling
 sessions, one hour, this can be years of
 
 people's lives.
 
 And, you know, let's talk about the
 difference and what happens typically in
 
 a ketamine assisted psychotherapy
 session, how it's structured, how long
 
 it works.
 
 
 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:58,91
 What are the role the therapist plays
 and how that differs from, maybe
 
 
 00:10:58,91 --> 00:11:01,194
 potentially shrinking the time to see
 some changes in people?
 
 Yeah, I mean, it's really remarkable.
 
 One of the things that I've really, you
 know, comes, it's kind of a double-edged
 
 sword, but there's definitely a lot of
 benefit to how flexible and adaptable
 
 
 00:11:13,39 --> 00:11:15,842
 ketamine or all the psychedelic
 medicines are.
 
 And so, you know, there's some freedom
 and there's some really effective,
 
 
 00:11:22,115 --> 00:11:27,87
 There's some real benefits to really
 answering that question with showing up
 
 
 00:11:27,87 --> 00:11:29,289
 and providing what the client needs,
 right?
 
 So, some of the structure, some of the
 role of the therapist, the manner, the
 
 manner in which it's given, the
 frequency.
 
 A lot of that really is driven by client
 need and intentions versus a prescribed
 
 way, which is what we see with some
 standard approaches or some historical
 
 
 00:11:50,844 --> 00:11:53,46
 approaches with pharmacology and some
 therapies.
 
 
 00:11:53,46 --> 00:11:57,183
 You will do it this often, this many
 hours, this many times a week.
 
 And that can be effective for some
 people, but some variations may be
 
 necessary as well.
 
 And so in some of our models, like the
 IV or the intravenous,
 
 some of those folks are getting those
 two to three times a week.
 
 
 00:12:15,935 --> 00:12:22,8
 some of the folks that we have in our
 clinic that use the sublingual, it's
 
 kind of a foundation to do it once, one
 dosing session a week with one
 
 
 00:12:28,14 --> 00:12:29,49
 integrative therapy.
 
 
 00:12:29,49 --> 00:12:33,887
 But I've had clients that have found it
 to be so powerful that they've asked to
 
 have a little bit more time between
 doses to really be able to process and
 
 
 00:12:37,357 --> 00:12:38,91
 reflect it.
 
 on it and see.
 
 So I have clients that it's every other
 week or maybe once a month, because it's
 
 less about the medicine and it's more
 about the experience that it opens.
 
 And so we're not so hard pressed on, you
 have to do this so many times.
 
 It's let's get you where you want to be.
 
 And in that space, that's what we're
 gaining.
 
 And if you can stay in that space for
 three weeks,
 
 
 00:13:03,483 --> 00:13:09,55
 then there's some argument to be had
 that we don't need to continue to give
 
 
 00:13:09,55 --> 00:13:12,792
 you medicine because that's not the
 intention, right?
 
 And so there's some flexibility, but
 your standard kind of session, depending
 
 on what you get right, is you're meeting
 with a doctor and you're going to have
 
 your standard psych eval and make sure
 that you're safe and you go through some things.
 
 There are some things that are counter,
 kind of indicated, but that's more of a conversation.
 
 IV, you're going to be with a medical
 professional that does require a higher
 
 
 00:13:32,946 --> 00:13:34,80
 level of monitoring.
 
 
 00:13:34,80 --> 00:13:38,84
 So you're typically going to be with a
 physician or at least a nurse that's
 
 
 00:13:38,84 --> 00:13:40,887
 trained in being able to administer the
 medicine.
 
 In those kind of sessions, again, we
 would hope that you're being paired with
 
 very quickly after.
 
 
 00:13:49,129 --> 00:13:54,67
 Some models and some clinics I've seen
 that they stay and they provide therapy
 
 
 00:13:54,67 --> 00:13:55,835
 within the same day.
 
 And that could be a little, that could
 be a long day.
 
 Some of your IVs, most of your IVs are
 about two, two and a half hours to
 
 
 00:14:03,843 --> 00:14:06,79
 really make sure that you're safely
 moving through that.
 
 
 00:14:07,13 --> 00:14:11,751
 And so then if you ever have therapy in
 conjunction with that, that could be difficult.
 
 For some, they like that because it's in
 the same day versus having to come back
 
 the next day or the day after.
 
 Sublingual is self-administered.
 
 It's very safe to be given
 self-administered.
 
 And so we see some variations that you
 can be in the clinic with a guide, a
 
 chaperone, someone that's just checking
 in with you.
 
 
 00:14:30,70 --> 00:14:33,373
 It could be with a full-blown therapist
 that's really more active and helping
 
 
 00:14:33,373 --> 00:14:34,7
 you through that.
 
 And those can vary between two and a
 half hours, three, upwards of four,
 
 depending on the dosing.
 
 And it's just a different way your body
 processes it than it would with the IV.
 
 And again, that's already quite
 substantial for our clients on our clinic.
 
 We just ask that they come back another
 day.
 
 So we really allow them to just really
 lean all in on the journey itself for
 
 
 00:14:57,597 --> 00:15:02,2
 one day and just kind of respect the
 journey and then allow therapy to be the
 
 
 00:15:02,2 --> 00:15:03,903
 next day or the day after.
 
 
 00:15:03,903 --> 00:15:08,74
 We typically say that window of
 neuroplasticity is about 72 hours.
 
 And so we ask that the clients have to
 have a session within a day or two
 
 following the dose to really make sure
 we're optimizing it.
 
 The nasal, again, you're going to have
 somebody with you that unfortunately
 
 will have to be with you.
 
 Not unfortunately, it's fine, but
 they'll have to be with you to
 
 administer it because it's just
 administered in a different way.
 
 
 00:15:25,25 --> 00:15:28,428
 So it varies a little bit, but a really
 good program is going to include the
 
 medicine and it's going to include an
 active role of a therapist that's
 
 trained in understanding the medicine
 and understanding how to integrate these
 
 altered states of consciousness with the
 goals that we're trying to achieve in
 
 what is empirically supported.
 
 therapy models.
 
 Yeah, and I will just speak to this, Dr.
 
 
 00:15:48,682 --> 00:15:49,49
 Tony.
 
 
 00:15:49,49 --> 00:15:53,286
 One of the things that I find any
 therapist or clinician or doctor or
 
 provider of any sort that actually has
 been through their own journey and has
 
 worked through it is...
 
 so much more, in my opinion, qualified
 to administer, to support, and to guide.
 
 
 00:16:04,431 --> 00:16:08,1
 And so that's why I just want to just
 shout out to you because of your journey.
 
 And that's something that I find we
 place a lot of trust in you.
 
 And that's why we, of course, have you
 on our medical board for the Psychedelic Society.
 
 And I think that's important to just
 share that that's one of the things we
 
 are about harm reduction education for
 the organization.
 
 And
 
 It's important to, so if you have any
 questions too, I feel like people can go
 
 to you if they have any questions about
 someone, maybe that's a provider in
 
 their area, or we're gonna have some
 literature out there of like how to
 
 choose, you know, a ketamine provider or
 a psychedelic-assisted therapist.
 
 I think that's really important since
 this is the...
 
 the wild, wild west now as far as what
 the regulations and things like that are.
 
 So I kind of go into that, why is
 ketamine currently the only legal option
 
 for psychedelic assisted therapy and
 what's the growing interest and why?
 
 Yeah, I mean, that's a really tough
 question.
 
 And we know that ketamine as a chemical
 compound has had FDA approval since the 70s.
 
 And that's really why it's the one
 that's the most mainstream right now,
 
 because the actual medicine itself has
 been FDA approved.
 
 And so with that being said, I mean, it
 is important for individuals to know
 
 that there is a form of ketamine that
 has been approved
 
 for treatment-resistant depression.
 
 And Spravato is the brand name of the
 nasal spray.
 
 So that has gained FDA approval for use
 in mental health for treatment-resistant depression.
 
 So it is just for TRD.
 
 And because of that, right, some cost is
 different.
 
 It could be funded and covered by
 insurances.
 
 But that's the only FDA approval that we
 have for ketamine and mental health.
 
 It is something that should be fully
 transparent in our informed consent
 
 process to our clients.
 
 So as clinicians, we need to make sure
 we commit to informing them it's an
 
 off-label use in any other form for
 mental health.
 
 It doesn't mean it's unsafe.
 
 
 00:18:09,289 --> 00:18:14,27
 It just kind of means that for all
 intents and purposes, right now the FDA
 
 
 00:18:14,27 --> 00:18:20,533
 has not come out and officially stated
 that these uses in other forms of
 
 administration are FDA approved for this
 use.
 
 
 00:18:24,4 --> 00:18:28,108
 But we have to also understand that a
 lot of our medications that are either
 
 A, being used right now may still be off
 use.
 
 or even the ones right now that do have
 FDA approval that are being prescribed
 
 for us in mental health at one time or
 another were not used for mental health.
 
 
 00:18:44,90 --> 00:18:46,659
 Many of them were blood pressure
 medications.
 
 I think Trazodone is one of them.
 
 I think it was a failed blood pressure
 medication.
 
 They used it.
 
 They saw the benefits with sleep and
 they did a whole bunch of studies and
 
 now it's, you know, one of the very
 common sleep aid.
 
 And I think there's a lot of them out
 there, Prozacin, which we use for
 
 nightmares for PTSD.
 
 That, it too was either a blood pressure
 or something cardiovascular, right?
 
 So there's a lot of medications that
 when they come to market for one thing,
 
 people over years and years of its use
 start seeing that it's benefiting other populations.
 
 And those types of pioneers say, we need
 to look at that more and we need to do
 
 
 00:19:27,934 --> 00:19:29,69
 studies for that.
 
 And that's what's happening with
 ketamine.
 
 We've noticed that ketamine and other
 psychedelic medicine, but ketamine, it's
 
 already being used in the medical field.
 
 has properties that deserve to be
 explored and studied.
 
 And they are, they are.
 
 And there's a lot of people championing
 for additional FDA approval and
 
 additional access.
 
 So it's not illegal for clinics to use
 it off label with the correct amount of
 
 training, but it doesn't come with the
 FDA stamp of approval that through their
 
 metric, it meets their standards.
 
 But again, we can see this in a lot of
 things.
 
 There's probably a lot of people doing a
 lot of great foods and supplements that
 
 don't have FDA approval.
 
 It doesn't mean they're not safe.
 
 It just means the FDA hasn't gotten
 involved in it.
 
 So that's kind of what's happening with
 ketamine right now.
 
 
 00:20:23,56 --> 00:20:25,25
 So that's also why it's there.
 
 
 00:20:25,25 --> 00:20:30,96
 Unfortunately, psilocybin, MDMA, and
 some of these other psychedelics haven't
 
 
 00:20:30,96 --> 00:20:33,133
 found their way mainstream in any form.
 
 any medical form that it could then be
 piggybacked off of in an off-label use.
 
 That's really why ketamine right now
 stands out.
 
 Yeah, absolutely.
 
 
 00:20:44,511 --> 00:20:49,49
 Well, then let's talk a little bit about
 the common misconceptions about ketamine
 
 
 00:20:49,49 --> 00:20:52,18
 therapy, because that is something that
 people are like, wait a minute, what
 
 
 00:20:52,18 --> 00:20:53,386
 happened with Matthew Perry?
 
 Like, there's this whole thing that we
 had this like upheaval in the
 
 psychedelic space of, of what this, what
 this means.
 
 And I think it's important because
 
 people then maybe be more likely to move
 away from it.
 
 So let's address those misconceptions,
 misconceptions and myths.
 
 Yeah, I mean, there's definitely a lot,
 right?
 
 Again, the horse tranquilizer, that's
 completely an unfortunate, you know,
 
 connection between two things.
 
 Obviously, at high, high levels, it's
 absolutely an anesthetic.
 
 
 00:21:27,420 --> 00:21:30,23
 I mean, that's where it's got its value.
 
 back when, again, when PCP was being
 used, people were having quite a bit of
 
 really powerful experiences.
 
 And so I don't know his name and I
 probably should, but whoever
 
 experimented with it said, hey, you
 know, this doesn't feel terrible and it
 
 doesn't have a ton of side effects
 either.
 
 So like, you know, we could give this a
 consideration.
 
 So, right, so this misnomer that it's a
 party drug or this misnomer that it's a
 
 
 00:21:56,883 --> 00:21:59,52
 horse tranquilizer, we got to let go of
 that.
 
 
 00:22:00,20 --> 00:22:05,91
 It is is a medical medicine and is it a
 medicine is a medical drug, for lack of
 
 
 00:22:05,91 --> 00:22:09,62
 a better word in its generic form that
 that's how it started.
 
 
 00:22:09,129 --> 00:22:17,3
 It started as a for human beings and it
 started to as a as an anesthesia, you
 
 
 00:22:17,3 --> 00:22:22,409
 know, as an anesthetic with people in
 the medical as well as, you know,
 
 soldiers on the battlefields like that.
 
 That's what this started as.
 
 And over time, it got its hands into the
 party scene, like most things.
 
 And I already addressed kind of why it
 got tagged as a horse or animal
 
 tranquilizers, because, again, it was
 easier to steal or to, you know,
 
 
 00:22:43,763 --> 00:22:48,34
 accidentally take a vial home with you
 from the vet clinic than it was where
 
 
 00:22:48,34 --> 00:22:49,869
 hospitals track stuff like that much.
 
 much more strictly.
 
 So we have to let go of those misnomers
 because that's not doing any service to
 
 a medicine that has been helping people
 in so many ways since the 60s and 70s.
 
 This has been around forever.
 
 So that's something.
 
 
 00:23:06,886 --> 00:23:10,23
 Another thing that we have to really
 recognize, and I think this is where, as
 
 
 00:23:10,23 --> 00:23:12,892
 you mentioned, the Wild, Wild West, we
 have to be careful of, and I think we're
 
 
 00:23:12,892 --> 00:23:15,61
 kind of shooting ourselves in the foot
 in some degree.
 
 Again, it's a double-edged sword.
 
 It's great to have freedom.
 
 It's great to be able to meet our
 clients and feel that we can really
 
 tailor our programs.
 
 Unfortunately, that has opened the door
 for some people taking advantage of that.
 
 And so I think some of the things that
 have really put stigma around it or have
 
 caused people to be nervous about it is
 likely because not everybody is doing it safely.
 
 And I even mean professionals.
 
 Not all professionals are building safe
 programs.
 
 They're not all extensively trained in
 mental health.
 
 I'm not saying that they can't do good
 things if they got the right training.
 
 I'm just saying that we have to be
 careful that because we have the ability
 
 to prescribe, that we just say, well,
 we're going to do that for PTSD and we
 
 don't have any training in mental health
 or trauma.
 
 So I do think that one of the things
 we're combating is that people that are
 
 reaching out for these services are
 having bad experiences, and then that's
 
 getting shared.
 
 And unfortunately, when bad experiences
 are compared to good experiences, our
 
 human brain tends to pick the bad
 experiences.
 
 And that's self-preservation.
 
 We want to look at the bad and say, I
 need to protect myself from that.
 
 And unfortunately, that's just bad, bad,
 bad policies and bad procedures.
 
 And there's a lot of unsafe clinics out
 there.
 
 So one of the things that makes this
 safe, like I said, the reason why it was
 
 used so heavily is it's one of the
 safest of all the anesthesias.
 
 You don't necessarily have to have a
 crash cart because it's not going to
 
 suppress your respiratory system,
 especially at the very low, low end that
 
 we're using in the mental health field.
 
 
 00:25:01,568 --> 00:25:05,5
 But even then, right, it's safe in that
 regards.
 
 
 00:25:05,5 --> 00:25:06,406
 It doesn't mess with blood pressure.
 
 If anything, it does
 
 It raises it a little bit.
 
 It doesn't tank it.
 
 So I think I may have misspoke earlier.
 
 It doesn't lower your blood pressure.
 
 So you don't have to worry about
 bottoming out or you have to have a
 
 crash cart.
 
 So respiratory, your blood pressure,
 everything's kind of stable, which makes
 
 
 00:25:21,221 --> 00:25:22,88
 it very safe.
 
 Unfortunately, some of the stories
 without specifically targeting anybody
 
 or talking badly about anybody, we have
 to read between the lines and get some
 
 of the information.
 
 We have to educate ourselves, right?
 
 That it wasn't the ketamine.
 
 Ketamine was a contributing factor only
 because of the sheer volume and amount
 
 of ketamine that was used.
 
 It didn't suppress respiratory system.
 
 It didn't cause an individual to stop
 breathing.
 
 Unfortunately, at the levels being used
 and at the frequency that was being used
 
 outside of a clinic, it's very important
 to recognize that some of the stories
 
 we've heard were not being done under
 the monitoring and the guidance of
 
 of medical professionals.
 
 Unfortunately, in one of those cases,
 the actual medical professional said,
 
 no, you're not using it right.
 
 What you're asking is beyond what would
 be therapeutic.
 
 And so we're no longer going to
 prescribe that.
 
 So we had good medical professionals
 actually do the right thing.
 
 And again, unfortunately, at that level,
 now it becomes
 
 an anesthesia, they're under anesthesia
 at that point.
 
 And I hate to tell you, if you don't
 know that people are operating on you
 
 when you're under it, you're not going
 to know, unfortunately, that you're
 
 drowning in water or that something else
 is happening to you.
 
 So while ketamine was a factor, it was
 it was the amount of use of the chemical
 
 or the medicine.
 
 outside of what it was to be used for.
 
 That unfortunately contributed to that.
 
 So again, with all that being said, I
 talk to all my clients, a very good
 
 informed process, talks about risks, it
 talks about some of these things, but a
 
 
 00:27:06,826 --> 00:27:11,64
 program that checks in with you
 regularly, a program that requires you
 
 
 00:27:11,64 --> 00:27:18,571
 to attend therapy, that doesn't give you
 a whole ton of supplies all at once, but
 
 asks that we break that up over a period
 of time with some check-ins.
 
 with your doctor in between, all of
 those are good programs that are
 
 absolutely maximizing the safety of this
 treatment and the effectiveness of it too.
 
 
 00:27:32,886 --> 00:27:34,87
 It's a financial investment.
 
 And someone that just says, here,
 financially invest in this, take the
 
 medicine, feel great.
 
 They're not respecting your financial
 investment.
 
 
 00:27:44,30 --> 00:27:50,570
 The people that are saying, hey, come to
 therapy, do the work, let's do that together.
 
 And if you can stretch out,
 
 when you take your doses, that's just
 going to further maximize your potential
 
 that you can gain.
 
 So those clinics that ask you to check
 in more often and monitor you more often
 
 are respecting your emotional and
 financial investment by making sure that
 
 it's the best experience you can
 possibly have and you can experience
 
 
 00:28:16,262 --> 00:28:18,31
 those benefits for longer term.
 
 
 00:28:19,65 --> 00:28:20,266
 Yeah, absolutely.
 
 Hands down, I think.
 
 But as we see more things progress, what
 do you see as for the future and for
 
 ketamine-based diabies?
 
 Yeah.
 
 Well, I hope it doesn't get lost.
 
 
 00:28:32,245 --> 00:28:35,48
 You know, we're doing, there's a lot of
 studies going on.
 
 You know, Sonny's jobs, but she's
 fantastic.
 
 She wrote a book, many books, right?
 
 And I took some,
 
 a couple of courses with her about
 ketamine and internal family systems.
 
 And she makes the same comment, that she
 hopes that, while some of these other
 
 advancements are happening in there and
 we don't lose sight of, right?
 
 It's not a using ketamine until
 something better comes along and then we
 
 replace that.
 
 
 00:29:01,74 --> 00:29:06,413
 I truly believe that each medicine is
 going to have its own, it has a
 
 potential to have its own place at the
 table if we allow it, right?
 
 If we
 
 are able to give, access to multiple
 things.
 
 
 00:29:14,621 --> 00:29:20,60
 I don't think we have to compete
 between, ketamine against psilocybin
 
 
 00:29:20,60 --> 00:29:23,930
 against MDMA, even if they have
 different results.
 
 
 00:29:24,97 --> 00:29:29,936
 I still think that just shows that the
 more we have available to us, the more
 
 able we're going to help people.
 
 
 00:29:32,272 --> 00:29:36,9
 Because again, it's not just do this and
 this makes everything better.
 
 
 00:29:36,9 --> 00:29:39,12
 It's learning about our, it's learning
 about people.
 
 
 00:29:39,12 --> 00:29:40,246
 It's hearing their story.
 
 And then from that saying, we have some
 things based on that we can possibly
 
 help you.
 
 So we need access to more possibilities.
 
 So I hope that ketamine stays, we don't
 lose sight of it just because it's kind
 
 of already here.
 
 
 00:29:56,262 --> 00:29:58,31
 We kind of have some FDA approval.
 
 
 00:29:58,31 --> 00:30:00,500
 We're doing it kind of with off-label.
 
 I hope we don't lose sight that we still
 need to do studies and we still need to
 
 advocate for more widely
 
 available or accessed that's FDA
 approved as we are also fighting for
 
 other medicines that could be doing
 similar things, but in their own right
 
 are doing different things, right?
 
 
 00:30:21,287 --> 00:30:23,56
 So I'm excited, psilocybin.
 
 
 00:30:23,56 --> 00:30:26,593
 There's a lot of great momentum gaining.
 
 Some states are writing some legislation
 to at least
 
 get it talked about.
 
 It doesn't mean maybe it's going to be
 as widely accepted right now, but just
 
 the fact that some are saying, well,
 it's okay if it gets shot down.
 
 At least people know we're not going
 away.
 
 So I think that's a pretty cool
 advancement.
 
 There's some talks that there's a
 company that's already starting to
 
 synthesize it to make it more possible
 to see it.
 
 And MDMA, while it had some falters last
 year because we were
 
 as early, well, last year, leading into
 this year, where we were kind of hopeful
 
 
 00:31:04,431 --> 00:31:06,32
 maybe we've already would have seen it.
 
 Hope isn't lost.
 
 That company's going back and doing
 their thing.
 
 But since then, the VA has earmarked
 $1.5
 
 million to a five-year study for MDMA
 and PTSD with veterans.
 
 
 00:31:20,747 --> 00:31:27,20
 The DOD just gave the University of
 Texas $5 million to study MDMA with
 
 
 00:31:27,53 --> 00:31:30,657
 active duty veterans at PTSD in
 conjunction with prolonged exposure.
 
 So the commitment and the money being
 invested in studies really shows some
 
 hope in those fields too.
 
 So we are, fingers crossed, still
 campaigning for access to some of these
 
 
 00:31:47,207 --> 00:31:48,8
 other medicines.
 
 
 00:31:48,8 --> 00:31:48,742
 And like I said,
 
 I'm going to certainly move with them as
 they come available.
 
 I just, I just, I hope ketamine doesn't
 get lost because it's really been
 
 helping a lot of folks.
 
 Yeah, absolutely.
 
 tried and true, tried and true.
 
 Yeah.
 
 So we're going to be moving into
 ketamine assisted psychotherapy for
 
 veterans, first responders, and high
 need population.
 
 So this is Dr.
 
 Tony's like expertise and passion.
 
 And like, I just love talking to you
 because part of my soul and my spirit is
 
 like a protector.
 
 I'm here to protect.
 
 And so I have a special place in my
 heart.
 
 heart for anyone out there that, anyone
 that is a warrior spirit, anyone that's
 
 been a first responder or someone that's
 here to protect because there's so much
 
 being in that line of whether it's
 actual like attack or being verbally,
 
 psychically attacked in this world where
 we're standing up and speaking out truth
 
 for things like we need tools to help
 the nervous system to downregulate
 
 because there's a lot of things that
 happen from trauma, from these
 
 repetitive experiences that can really
 affect our mental health in our day-to-day.
 
 So
 
 Thanks for listening, guys.
 
 Check out our next episode.
 
 And again, if you want to learn more
 about Dr.
 
 Tony, go into the show notes and check
 out Rigel Therapeutics.
 
 This is in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.
 
 And check out the Central Pennsylvania
 Psychedelic Society.
 
 Dr.
 
 Tony is on our board.
 
 
 00:33:04,484 --> 00:33:08,88
 He is the Director of Veterans and First
 Responder Affairs.
 
 And you can always check us out and
 learn more about our organization.
 
 So thanks, everyone, for listening.
 
 Thank you for listening to the Mind Body
 Detox Podcast.
 
 If you love this podcast, share it with
 others and leave us a review.
 
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 and supports us continuing to make
 
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 You can also follow the link in our show
 notes to submit a topic that you would
 
 like to hear on the show.
 
 

 ---
 
 

Blog Summary:
 This episode dives into the hidden connections between mind, body, and spirit. Through personal stories and expert guidance, listeners learn how to support resilience, heal past patterns, and create alignment in daily life.
 
 

Meta Description:
 Mind Body Detox Podcast: Kara Lovehart explores healing, resilience, and whole-person health with an inspiring guest.
 
 

Quotes:
 “Healing must be comprehensive—mental, physical, and spiritual.”
 “The body remembers what the mind forgets.”
 “Gut health and brain health are more connected than most people realize.”
 “Trauma recovery isn’t linear, but it is possible.”
 “Whole-person wellness is the foundation of lasting transformation.”